tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post2354946740970077153..comments2023-11-17T01:32:25.790+00:00Comments on Aleksandr Voinov - Letters from the Front: The purity of fear, prejudice, and intolerance (the m/m rainbow has only one colour: gay)Aleksandr Voinovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-90008762244743646872012-07-19T19:39:27.979+01:002012-07-19T19:39:27.979+01:00Many times, either while reading a book or just af...Many times, either while reading a book or just after finishing one, I've thought "it's too bad they didn't bring her in" or "why don't they have any women?" Then I'd answer myself with its supposed to be m/m, gay, no women allowed, and feel deflated and dumb. So it's rather cool to read that someone else has thought about it and wrestled, as well.<br /><br />For the record, I like Katya. And, I'm a true consumer, I usually buy a book based on the blurb and or excerpt, very seldom do I believe a book review.Spaqueennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-29028864418278091832012-04-03T01:22:38.533+01:002012-04-03T01:22:38.533+01:00How very odd. In my decade of writing m/m stories,...How very odd. In my decade of writing m/m stories, I've never had a single reader object to my female, bisexual, or gender-variant characters. (My most popular series has all three.) Moreover, three wildly popular online m/m authors are Manna Francis, Maculategiraffe, and M. Chandler. All three give prominent roles to women, and the first two have bisexual protagonists. Maybe the reviewers are simply out of touch with what many readers like?<br /><br />My only objection to the female characters I've seen in m/m fiction is that they so often fall into the trope of ordinary, sympathetic friend. I'd love to see some friendly wild-eyed radical women, now and then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-21255526925800237802012-03-29T22:25:28.429+01:002012-03-29T22:25:28.429+01:00I know this is a bit off topic but I do feel it is...I know this is a bit off topic but I do feel it is important to mention since evryone keeps mentioning the Rainbow flag and how people are only accepting one color. If everyone took the time to look up Gilbert Baker's 1979 Rainbow flag they would know that each color does not stand for any of the alphabet soup. The six colors that are represented Mean red: life orange: healing yellow: sunlight green: nature Blue: harmony and violet: spirit. GLBTQQ is not seperated under this flag. This flag is to represent what you should be standing and living for as a whole. I really have no comment about the other issues. I don't want to get involved. I just wanted to let everyone know the meanings behind the colors and to think on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-76532873370245457962012-03-28T23:55:58.471+01:002012-03-28T23:55:58.471+01:00I can't even count the m/m-books I found disap...I can't even count the m/m-books I found disappointing because they either had no female characters in them at all or where the only female character was the villain. It is like the ugliest side of fandom, where on the one hand the female fans bemoan the lack of strong women in the original source and yet either erase or turn the women that do exist into villains and harpies. Female character bashing at its worst. :-(<br /><br />I want interesting characters, male and female and transgender and queergender. <br /><br />I'm currently plotting out an SF-book where one of the supporting characters turned out to be genderqueer, probably intersex. I'm not going to cut hir out of the story just because some morons think that in m/m there only should be men. <br /><br />My male characters also might be interested in women, they might flirt with women and men, they might have had relastionships with women, they will have female friends and family. <br /><br />Women are great! We get erased or reduced to stereotypes enough in mainstream-fiction that we shouldn't do it to ourselves as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-31566521990565016712012-03-28T05:12:19.278+01:002012-03-28T05:12:19.278+01:00Oooh, please please please write it, Megan! =)Oooh, please please please write it, Megan! =)Adarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07622280812930196058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-22814942362876963502012-03-25T13:26:03.717+01:002012-03-25T13:26:03.717+01:00Ouch! Yes *feels ashamed for missing the a*
Alpha...Ouch! Yes *feels ashamed for missing the a*<br /><br />Alphabet soup is right, maybe we should just go with 'rainbow family' or something like that. 'Embrace the Rainbow' is a good place to start. No letters, no distinctions, the rainbow doesn't discriminate or label, nor should we :)Blaine D. Ardenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218104611261884983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-36665417260981362142012-03-25T02:40:14.111+01:002012-03-25T02:40:14.111+01:00Thanks Aleks, for saying what has needed to be sai...Thanks Aleks, for saying what has needed to be said. I find it strange and saddening that so many claim discomfort when normal women are part of m/m stories without even getting into sex scenes. It is fascinating to consider how the antecedents of the current m/m genre are tangling us up today. <br /><br />I am one of those readers who found m/m by accident and kept reading because I didn't have to suspend my disbelief (or even understanding of my own life?)to read a story where two people find each other and through that experience become their true selves/are better for this relationship - whether that is HEA or HFN or shades in between. This doesn't mean that I want my gender to be erased or disparaged. It means that I want to respect the story and the people in it. <br /><br />I have too much real life going on at the moment so I am saving Dark Soul 4 and 5 for a time when I am able to read them with the attention they deserve and as a reward - I am looking forward to this very much. I am too much of a romance reader not to want a HFN/HEA and I know 3 books in that Donata is an essential part of that. I am also glad that there will be new Scorpion books!Merriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-54264770542689916932012-03-25T02:09:52.751+01:002012-03-25T02:09:52.751+01:00You know, in the old days, people used to spend ho...You know, in the old days, people used to spend hours in brick and mortar bookstores, browsing aisles, looking at books, reading blurbs, flipping through magazines, etc. Not just for books - folks did this for many items - furniture, cars, jewelry. People made informed decisions based on research. Everyone wants things instant now. Well, when you go instant, you give up certain things. Like certainty.DC Jurishttp://www.dcjuris.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-89616023296312025542012-03-24T21:51:37.003+00:002012-03-24T21:51:37.003+00:00You're welcome. I can't help bursting out ...You're welcome. I can't help bursting out with this stuff...Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-37850509664641985012012-03-24T21:50:19.690+00:002012-03-24T21:50:19.690+00:00Hi Jen - thanks for your comment, and I can say th...Hi Jen - thanks for your comment, and I can say that my own preferences have shifted very much along the same lines (I had some serious issues with femininity, but show me one transguy who doesn't...and i'll ask you for a black-winged unicorn next). <br /><br />Of course everybody can review whatever the hell they want. There's no reason why a blog couldn't specialise in reviewing only blond-haired characters or books with ginger tomcats on the cover. :) It's just when they fly the GLBTQQSA flag or harp on about the Trevor Project that I get somewhat angry. Because it's not just G kids that kill themselves - if anything, there's a certain privilege attached to be genetically male (or pass for male), be white and gay and the whole works - something that's widely discussed in the rainbow community and among writers. So, making the support visible with putting the flag there is a great thing, but when the actions are in direct contradiction to that, then I get a bit weirded out. "We don't mind trans* stuff and we support trans* people, but we don't want to read their stuff." Anybody else clenching their teeth at that?Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-84494672272076706172012-03-24T21:39:47.741+00:002012-03-24T21:39:47.741+00:00Hi pointycat (love the nick!) - Yes, I hear that m...Hi pointycat (love the nick!) - Yes, I hear that much of the attraction of m/m is that there are no idjit heroines seemingly so common in m/f. I do think the issue is much larger here - I think writing stupid/idiotic/weak/whiny/unsympathetic/..../ women is basically lazy and bad writing. But if I'm bad at writing something, I try to make up that weakness. <br /><br />I've often said I'm bad at writing women, but I have long had some issues with femininity (largely, I hate the enforced feminine stereotypes that female-bodied people are expected to follow and are being bullied into following), but looking around myself in my daily life, I'm BESIEGED by kick-ass women I respect a great deal. So the solution for me is to take my fictional women from real life - half a dash from a friend, some attitudes from my boss... and Lady Frankenstein lives and kicks ass and takes names. <br /><br />And, I'm with you. While I'm a monogamous person (serial monogamy), I know poly people that make this work and with the right people, that would an arrangement that works for me, too. So, yep. I rather have my characters find ways to live with themselves and each other than tick somebody else's kink box.Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-38992379998589657042012-03-24T21:33:42.860+00:002012-03-24T21:33:42.860+00:00KM - I'm 150% with you. I've always only w...KM - I'm 150% with you. I've always only written what I felt, and when it co-incided with the "kink of the day" at some places and for some readers, cool, I take the money, but it's not why I write or how I write. My character would laugh at me and never stop. :)<br /><br />The crazy thing is that "real life" gays seem to be more open about all this wider rainbow stuff. So here's a group of people discrimination most of the rainbow for the sake of one of the colours of the rainbow that has no such discrimination, at least on the literary side (and some unfortunate gay writers bitching about female authors in "their" genre notwithstanding). <br /><br />I'm crazy, but can't we all just grow up?Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-38563239453391938562012-03-24T21:30:22.165+00:002012-03-24T21:30:22.165+00:00Hi Elin - I agree. It's crazy that these stori...Hi Elin - I agree. It's crazy that these stories - which are empowering to a (not so small) minority and might just lift up people that have been crushed and ignored and made invisible - how that is twisted in the name of "kink" and made intolerant, shallow, and reverse-hateful. You don't fix thousands of years of suffering and discrimination by reverse-discrimination and suffering and hatred. <br /><br />And yeah, the "erotica" label is f*cking stupid - I mean, the mainstream has some terrible and appalling sex writing but doesn't come with those labels....Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-20673469800696107722012-03-24T21:27:07.533+00:002012-03-24T21:27:07.533+00:00Hi Tomy - thanks for commenting. As a reader, I...Hi Tomy - thanks for commenting. As a reader, I'm much like you. I read for the "full story", not for some gay utopia where women don't exist or are "naturally evil". For me, the main thing I read for is emotional release - tension, suspense, deep caring about people's struggles and developments, and then the happy glow of resolution. And that's it - whatever genre, whatever writer can give me that without setting of my bullshit detector or making me cringe with bad prose has a fan in me.Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-85675011300328555502012-03-24T21:24:37.091+00:002012-03-24T21:24:37.091+00:00I can fix that - there's an "A" miss...I can fix that - there's an "A" missing, too - hence the flippant comment about the "alphabet soup".Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-68746987878463372642012-03-24T21:23:52.186+00:002012-03-24T21:23:52.186+00:00Hi Jeff - I got Dragon Streets and hope to read it...Hi Jeff - I got Dragon Streets and hope to read it soon. :)Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-4072136291095270232012-03-24T21:17:09.683+00:002012-03-24T21:17:09.683+00:00Hi Josh - thanks for commenting, and I hope your f...Hi Josh - thanks for commenting, and I hope your flue clears up quickly (my partner got something like that last weekend, just in time for his birthday, so I hope you have a carer ready with chicken soup, too).<br /><br />I totally agree on the m/f/m thing, actually. I've never read any of them apart from a couple books written by friends, and the main thing that irked me was that very often that triangle was really lop-sided. <br /><br />I believe a triad can work (not that Dark Soul *is* a triad), but usually not in a short form (three people bring like twice or three times the issues to the table that two people do), and I think it requires a lot of character insight and a damned good writer to even attempt it.<br /><br />My big issue is that, yes, the genre has moved on - lots of readers have moved on from the "ewww, woman bits" - but those that haven't shout very loudly, and some of the most influential and important reviewers are actually fuelling that bias and intolerance while flying rainbow flags on their blogs.Aleksandr Voinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06583805228909693924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-57369201698538818442012-03-24T18:46:38.450+00:002012-03-24T18:46:38.450+00:00Hmm. Such an interesting post.
I'm still work...Hmm. Such an interesting post.<br /><br />I'm still working my way through the DA columns -- I'm recovering from the flu and currently have the attention span of a gnat -- so I'm only responding to your post.<br /><br />I think *perhaps* some of the hostility toward girly bits developed early in m/m when certain het authors attempted to cash in on the perception of a very lucrative sub-sub-genre by writing romances that had the best of all possible commercial worlds: m/f/m. Thus we had "gay romances" where somehow a woman managed to be central to the relationship. <br /><br />When I first came across these stories they did strike me as a crass commercial ploy, stories designed to cater to heterosexual sensibilities and fantasies. <br /><br />It may not have been fair even then, and I'm sure it's no longer fair given how much the genre has evolved in a few short years. However, I think some of that bias still lingers -- a sense of resentment that gay romance can only be tolerated if a woman is somehow included in the mix. <br /><br />Anyway, I'm not arguing with your point so much as analyzing the antecedents of what I agree is a genuine bias.Josh Lanyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11944091956589831656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-1642360472205669532012-03-24T16:08:24.041+00:002012-03-24T16:08:24.041+00:00Aleks,
It's a shame that they choose not to re...Aleks,<br />It's a shame that they choose not to review these books, and readers who choose not to read them are the ones that miss out on some beautifully written stories.<br /><br />I loved the Dark Soul series and for me the ménage was a perfect addition to the story. It felt true to the development of the characters and I loved Donata and her acceptance. It was great to see a strong woman who wasn't a complete bitch for a change.<br /><br />I love reading stories with bisexual characters and following their journey of discovery, that probably has anything to do with the fact that I'm a bi woman.<br /><br />I would have thought that the incest would have provoked a stronger reaction for people rather than the inclusion of the ménage.<br /><br />It's a shame that the reviewers feel that they have to exclude so much. Glad that I make my own choices and recommendations to and from my friends rather than relying on the reviewers rather blinkered viewpoint.<br /><br />I am so glad that you decided to continue to write what you want to write after the November '11 events. I look forward to you continuing to stretch the limits of what I choose to read.Justine Andersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-16887584231271765632012-03-23T15:42:59.802+00:002012-03-23T15:42:59.802+00:00I swear to god, I am sick to death of all this bul...I swear to god, I am sick to death of all this bullshit. Life has put a kink in my online time, so I go for loooong stretches without getting a chance to get on and catch up, but EVERY single time I have for the past few months, I've come back to yet another firestorm of...I don't even know what to call it. <br /><br />People have got to stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. You are either tolerant of ALL or you are not. This is not a Skittles rainbow. You can pick your favorite color or flavor out of the bag, but you must buy the whole bag to begin with. <br /><br />I don't even know what I'm saying, I am just too frustrated by the entire community. It's a fucking high school clique and I am so resolute now and really glad in the decision I made to get out of it. This completely seals the deal. People are not being inclusive and supportive and 'embracing' anything.<br /><br />And, none of it ever looks likely to change, this divide just keeps getting deeper and uglier and it's just plain sad.<br /><br />Best of luck, Aleks, I know it goes without saying how much I adore you. *hugs*Monikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16555501886959689611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-44119239607682238012012-03-23T10:27:39.338+00:002012-03-23T10:27:39.338+00:00You got to be kidding me! Do research etc etc befo...You got to be kidding me! Do research etc etc before buying a book. How is a writer going to earn a living if a reader takes so long before making up her mind. Life is too busy for that! I am not really holding a grudge. My own fault for assuming A. Voinov will only stick to MM romance, as past reading experience has indicated. Have to be more careful now if MM writers are going to switch to MMF. My interpretation of F here means a straight woman. I am fine with trans* and genderqueer. Just not a story featuring a straight woman in a MMF relationship and that is my choice of reading for enjoyment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-62486282208988687532012-03-23T02:38:57.081+00:002012-03-23T02:38:57.081+00:00This We are the other colours out there, and I, fo...This <i>We are the other colours out there, and I, for one, will never self-censor myself to just one colour. I'm way more than that.</i><br /><br />It's the reason why I choose to find the proverbial line drawn in the sand by people who think they know what is or is not "prudent" or "pure" in this genre and I boldly step over it (and smile at them as I do so). It's because I spent years of my life hiding my truth for fear of attack, bullying and "a fatal accident" that I am very sure would have occurred had I not waited to come out when I did. I've met and worked with people who aren't "pure gay" who don't identify with the tall, muscled, gorgeously handsome closeted football player or the tiny, very pretty twink that seem to be staples in much of this m/m genre and they laugh when I tell them about some of the books out there. They ask me where are the matchmaking female best friends, where are the mothers and the sisters, they ask me why is it that all of the women are so evil in the books.<br /><br />They ask me why I got so many angry emails about my having the bisexual sister, in my wolf-shifter series, defeating the villain in my fourth book seeing as how the female is definitely the more vicious of the wolf species.<br /><br />I wish I understood why this "female-dominated genre" is so antagonistic against the female character and sometimes even the female writer, why they are so against bisexuals and trans* characters and gender fluid characters when these people actually exist in the rainbow community. I just don't.<br /><br />Maybe one day someone will explain it and then we'll all understand and be able to deal with it, until then it's up to amazing authors, with amazing platforms who are just "too big to ignore" to keep breaking down stereotypes and pushing the envelope. It's not the reviewers who decide what is acceptable, it's the readers, because for every story there is a reader who will cherish it and we are doing them a huge disservice when we tell them that the story that they love or the characters that they adore aren't "pure" or "acceptable" because they don't fit into some reviewer's preconceived, and mistaken, view of what it means to be a part of the GLBTQQ community. We're doing those people who are gender-fluid, who are trans*, who are bisexual, who are gay men with strong female connections a disservice because we're telling them that they don't exist, because we're allowing someone else to dictate that to us.<br /><br />That's just my opinion of course, but it's the opinion of someone who is not only gay but trans* as well.Vicktor Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01335249239525296297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-29990547396852390052012-03-23T02:06:22.318+00:002012-03-23T02:06:22.318+00:00Aleks,
Thanks for writing this post. It gives me s...Aleks,<br />Thanks for writing this post. It gives me some very good food for thought.Cherie Noelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15857878847402931997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-14659151775654324612012-03-23T01:29:37.130+00:002012-03-23T01:29:37.130+00:00I'd read that, Megan, especially if you wrote ...I'd read that, Megan, especially if you wrote it.mcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29109752791794032.post-69187506459796613342012-03-22T18:55:11.183+00:002012-03-22T18:55:11.183+00:00Interesting topic, Aleks.
I've found that ove...Interesting topic, Aleks.<br /><br />I've found that over the years of reading m/m my feelings have changed on this subject. When I first started reading m/m romance, I came from m/f romance out of a dissatisfaction with some of the female characters in those books. Many were irritating and not at all like me. It was refreshing to me to have stories which focused solely on men (who I could enjoy reading about without ever being forced to 'become' as is sort of expected with a female romance character) and their love for each other, and I got annoyed if a woman 'intruded' on that, as I saw it at the time. I've also never been fond of m/f erotica, even before I read m/m romance. I hate the use of the word 'pussy' or 'cunt' and that shows up in nearly all erotic romance where a woman is involved. In m/m erotic romance there are lots of cocks, dicks and pricks but no pussies and cunts and so I could read that without wincing. Double standards? Possibly, but give me a 'moist cave' over pussy any day! <br /><br />Nowadays, I find myself more interested in looking at a range of different dynamics in relationships and so a character who has sex with men and women is just as appealing to me, as long as the sex scenes are written in a way as to avoid overly graphic sex terms. I've reviewed many like this on my blog, even one a couple of days ago where all the characters are openly bisexual. My one exception to that is m/m/f romance. I've tried it several times but there's something about it that just doesn't appeal to me. I'm not sure why, perhaps I need to examine that a little further. However, to be castigated over what is, in a sense, just a quirk of reading preference seems rather extreme. I don't hate bisexuality just because I'm not keen on m/f/m romance. <br /><br />The decision of a certain romance review site not to review books with m/f sex in them was born out of pressure from publishers for reviews of m/f/m books. It wasn't the original intent never to review books with some m/f sex in, and before the ban I reviewed several books with m/f sex in them. However, in order not to appear to have double standards the site decided it needed to draw a line and be firm about it. It's not been a popular decision, I know. I'm not sure I agree with it either, but it's not my site and I have to abide by the decisions made by the people who run it, just as the guest reviewers at Brief Encounters have to abide by our rules of no stories over 20,000 words.Jenrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492693697232134724noreply@blogger.com